The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #131665 Message #2979246
Posted By: Teribus
03-Sep-10 - 10:24 AM
Thread Name: BS: Priest in 1972 IRA bombing: Another cover up
Subject: RE: BS: Priest in 1972 IRA bombing: Another cover up
The notes taken by one of the Irish Delegates at the meeting are here:
Now remembering that these were negotiations relating to a Peace Treaty it is self evident that if there is agreement there is peace and if not the war will continue. Also remember that these negotiations had been ongoing for two months.
Here is what Robert Barton heard Lloyd George say at that meeting, this is what Robert Barton noted down
LLOYD GEORGE stated that he had always taken it that Arthur Griffith spoke for the Delegation, that we were all plenipotentiaries and that it was now a matter of peace or war and we must each of us make up our minds (No threat just plain statement of fact). He required that every delegate should sign the document and recommend it, or there was no agreement (Fact). He said that they as a body had hazarded their political future and we must do likewise and take the same risks. At one time he particularly addressed himself to me (Barton) and said very solemnly that those who were not for peace must take full responsibility for the war that would immediately follow refusal by any Delegate to sign the Articles of Agreement. (Again pure statement of fact)
He then produced two letters one of which he said he must that night send to Craig. One was a covering letter to H.M. Government's proposals for the future relations of Ireland and Great Britain and stated that the Irish Delegation had agreed to recommend them for acceptance by Dail Eireann. The other stated that the Irish Delegation had failed to come to an agreement with H.M. Government and therefore he had no proposals to send to Craig.
LLOYD GEORGE stated that he would have to have our agreement or refusal to the proposals by 10 p.m. that evening. That a special train and destroyer were ready to carry either one letter or the other to Belfast and that he would give us until ten o'clock to decide.
We then argued that the twelve months transition period was of the greatest danger to our people. Craig could say 'Yes' at any time; he could say 'No' finally before six months but he need not say 'No' for twelve months, so that for twelve months we might not know whether there was to be unity or not. Meantime life might be made intolerable for our people in Ulster.
LLOYD GEORGE argued that that contingency had been apparent from the first, but if it were a serious stumbling block we could shorten the transition period at any time we chose.
MICHAEL COLLINS said that the recent occurrences in Tyrone _ the seizure of the County Council books, etc., and the support of the Ulster Government with English troops had shaken our confidence in their fidelity.
LLOYD GEORGE answered that they had no jurisdiction on this matter in Ulster. It was a matter over which the Northern Government had complete control under the 1920 Act. He then suggested that they should withdraw in order that we might discuss the duration of the transition period amongst ourselves. They did so.
WE decided to reduce the period to one month. Rang for them to return and stated our decision.
LLOYD GEORGEsaid he considered the decision ill advised as a month did not give the Ulster people sufficient time to reflect. He affirmed that Craig was going to refuse the terms and that he (Lloyd George) knew this for certain. However, as we preferred one month, he was prepared to accept the alteration and redraft the Clauses. A month was the least possible that could be given Craig to make a final decision. He then proposed that we dismiss and reassemble again at 10 to give him our final decision.
There was a discussion amongst ourselves lasting from 9 to 11.15 at 22, Hans Place, at which a decision was eventually reached to recommend the Treaty to the Dail.
So Jim no threats of invasion as you stated, purely a statement of the obvious of a decision not to come to an agreement in negotiations intended to end a conflict.
Simply put we are gathered here to end a war if we cannot agree on terms then the war shall continue - A statement of the obvious.
No duress reading the above I believe Lloyd George was right in advising that shortening the time for the North to say Yes or No to a united Ireland was a whale of an error, at one month everybody knew what the answer would be - NO. Given time (i.e. the 12 months) individuals in the North could have been brought round and persuaded, but the Irish Delegates got their way and three days later they got Craig's answer - NO.