The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #131699   Message #2979619
Posted By: Steve Shaw
03-Sep-10 - 09:03 PM
Thread Name: BS: The God Delusion 2010
Subject: RE: BS: The God Delusion 2010
" 'It's an uphill struggle for any agnostic to show that their agnosticism isn't just an insurance policy.'

Well yes it's imossible to prove a negative claim like that. Fox News uses this all the time -- Is Obama really a space alien? If he's not, why doesn't he come clean about it? What's he got to hide? Substitute innuendo-of-the-day for "space alien" and repeat. Obama does not have to prove he's not an atheist, foreign-born, or Muslim. Nor do Agnostics have to prove they're not agnostic because they want fire insurance. That's something of a slimy move, Steve, and I'd have thought it beneath you."

Sorry to see you've turned sour following a couple of careless faux-pas. I don't do innuendo but I do do challenges to so-called agnostics who don't want their comfort zones violated (which is by no means all of them I hasten to add). I don't see agnosticism as a particularly honest position, generally speaking, and I don't need to resort to innuendo to state that. Now why would anyone be an agnostic? Maybe they haven't given the matter much thought. Or the pros and cons are too complicated to deal with right now. Or they have a sneaky suspicion that agnostics, if they happen to be wrong, might go to hell. Or they have given the matter a huge amount of anguished thought but have decided they still don't know. I've met a good few agnostics but very few fall into that latter category. I do see an awful lot of apathy wrapped up as agnostism, in contrast. I think the trouble with agnosticism is that it doesn't understand atheism very well. It is slightly scared of atheism's supposed absolutism. The fear is without foundation, as any serious atheist (and there are a few of the other kind, I know) will tell you they're not certain about God's non-existence. Atheism doesn't deal in absolutes (in stark contrast to religion). Most so-called agnostics I've met seem actually to be closet believers. I'm afraid you'll just have to accept that belief and agnosticism comes with a whole load of potential self-interested baggage. In a way, you've sort of proved that yourself by asking for prayers. Asking God to give you an advantage will always mean that you're asking him to give someone else a disadvantage. There are no victimless prayers of that sort.