Don't think it is incidental. The folk experienc is a complex package with lots of elements, artifacts and complexity. You can not extract a part and still claim it to be whole.

Yes there is a wide spectrum always. You can always find those who would consume more or less. The problem is that the medium or average is signifcantly higher than that today. We are indeed in the midst of a temperance movement but that is combined with a conspicuous consumption trend that pits people one against the other to determine not how much one can drink but how much one can pay in excess of market price for a pint. It is a status thing to gather with your folksong singing friends at the most expensive places where the cost of a pint is $6.00 or more.

The classic example of temperance is the transition of Joe Wilson- he ran a pub and did performances and published. Half way through he went tea totaller. But I suspect he was doing that more for business as the market had changed and he relied heavily on publishing.

Yes women were technically barred from pubs - from anything beyond the scales. However, loads of exceptions well documented. When the men wanted them in they came in and pubs varried as to their configuration. Often it depended upon the age of a woman sometimes they were confined to the lounge or snug.

Traditionally there was significant polarization. But I would not insist on it as the record is filled with exceptions. Both as performers and as audience. Many songs were kept by women only.

Listening to BBC programming I find that most folk club and other venues provide prices for admission along with food and at prices which would make a trip over well worth it on the food savings alone.
When I went to Durham we always found good food everywhere. And again provided as a service rather than a money maker ripping people off.


Pubs come in a spectrum of types. For a good survey see My Left Foot where a variety of pub styles are provided.

I always could find great meat pies in Newcastle pubs in the 70s and also in the 60s when I grew up in london. Sometimes food is an aquired taste but here we have to pay a kings ransom for a simple order of fries......all because thats where the musicians make us go.
That doesnt have to happen as they can gather in great wonderful cheap places.

I was interviewed by the Voice of america a few years ago. I was asked to take a reporter and video around to the best baltimore pubs.
All on the government credit card mind you. We were out from 11 am till 3 am the next day for two days. Several pints in each place done quickly. Truly amazing. The reporter was amazed at the low cost- so amazed that he asked me to take him to two upscale places for which he also paid.....and even then he found them cheaper than his local dc places.

The way capitalism works is through competition. Move the music to the cheapest place. There is a great Hoot in Laurel Maryland on main street in a moderate to low cost place-amazing to find one- they are filling the place with enthusiastic folk. Quite a different atmosphere to the more expensive venues where people think they are at the opera or something and you get angry looks if you would so much as clap or tap your foot.

Restrictive atmospheres stifle rather than promote the folk experience. Might feel good to you but its not doing good.

Conrad