The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #131699   Message #2989021
Posted By: GUEST,josep
17-Sep-10 - 08:46 PM
Thread Name: BS: The God Delusion 2010
Subject: RE: BS: The God Delusion 2010
///So take a leaf out of your own book and give us the proof you first promised.///

The argument is the proof--which you have stated more than once you do not accept. Which is fine. But the proof is stated and that's all I can do without a counterargument being offered. If you're looking for scientific evidence, I've provided a scant amount but this is a logical argument and I want to stick to logic and use science to back it up only if it makes my point easier to get across.

Logical proof is of a different nature than scientific proof. A logical proof has to hold in every facet but it sometimes throws people for a loop as it has with you. For instance:

I. My name is Josep, I am a nuclear physics graduate and I authored the argument that appears in this thread. (TRUE)
II. If I am the author of the argument in this thread then my name is Josep and I am a nuclear physics graduate. (TRUE)
III. So, my name is Josep and I am a nuclear physics graduate if and only if I am the author of the argument in this thread.

III is true but it makes you pause a moment, doesn't it? That's how my argument is structured. It is logical but you have to read it carefully and make sure you understand it. Think it through.

The only thing I have left to do is state the limitations of the argument and I may as well do that now.

The argument does not tell us if there is a god. Reincarnation could happen by some automatic mechanism.

Is there an end of time by this argument? Yes, but it is asymptotic. We get closer and closer to it but we will never reach it. Although consciousness is eternal, eternity has an end.

PROOF:
Assume eternity has an end:
a. But we know memory eventually becomes static and unchanging--the story becomes set, so to speak. And we know all sensations dwindle to zero eventually. Nothing changes for the rest of time and since time is characterized by change, time has ended.
b. But eternity has no end so there must be some memory modification and sensations not at zero.

Contradiction between a. and b. so the assumption that eternity has no end is in error because a. is undeniably true.

But since consciousness can never end, the end of eternity is purely mathematical and it is an asymptote our consciousness can never reach. So what must happen? We can't go on being reborn in new bodies because eternity ends but we can't stop existing because consciousness can never end.

What happens is that we simply go back and experience our various succession of lives all over again exactly as before. Analogous to a vinyl record on your old stereo. The songs are your different lives, the tone arm is your consciousness tracking through them and the spinning record is time. When tone arm reaches the end and then it returns to the beginning and plays the same sequence of songs over and over and over again.

Do we get off this merry-go-round of birth-death-rebirth? No. Hindus and Buddhists call it samsara and it is eternal. Once you're on the ride, you're always on the ride. You can never jump off.

Wheeeee!