The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #131699   Message #2990571
Posted By: GUEST,josep
20-Sep-10 - 08:08 PM
Thread Name: BS: The God Delusion 2010
Subject: RE: BS: The God Delusion 2010
///The only thing that has been experimentally proven is that consciousness collapses the wave function into a particle, into matter. That HAS been experimentally proven.

You keep saying things to that effect, but try as I might, I can find no evidence to back it up. Could you give us some references?///

It's called the Delayed-Choice Experiment and it was formulated by John Wheeler. It's complicated and requires diagrams but wikipedia shows it pretty well. It builds on the slit experiment. The slit experiment was simple--when we fire electrons through single slit with some film behind it, the film shows impact patterns meaning they were particles. But when the electrons are fired through two parallel slits, they form an interference pattern meaning they were waves.   

What Delayed-Choice did was emit a beam of light onto a a half-silvered mirror M1 and split it at angles and then both beams are reflected off regular mirrors such that they converge at a point P. Now we put a half-silvered mirror M2 at P which forces the beams to interfere constructively at one side of P and photon counter there will register a tick meaning we are registering a photon.

At the other side of P, the beams interfere destructively and a photon counter there registers no tick meaning we have a wave. For there to be interference means that the photon is split at M1 and travels BOTH routes not one or the other. Otherwise there could be no interference. And interference pattern indicates a wave.

To register the particle aspect of the wavicle, we simply remove M2 and let one or the other counter register a tick and that path has the particle--either the transmitted one or the reflected one.

Now suppose we decide at the last pico second (and this was actually done in the laboratory) to remove the half-silvered mirror M2 at P1 to measure the particle even though by then, the beams are converging to interfere as waves. What happens? Both counters tick one at a time. No interference. That is, we still register a particle if M2 is removed at the last possible moment. This should be impossible. It means that even though we had a split wave packet at M1, it somehow retroactively went back and changed to a particle along which ever path we register the particle on. It seems that causality was violated. The photon seems to respond to our delayed choice retroactively.

The delay really has nothing to do with anything. It just illustrates the point that the collapse of the wave packet is, as they say, non-local--action-at-a-distance without signals. The split at M1 was only in potentia--nothing had been "decided." Nothing really happened in space-time. It was just possibilities. By choosing when to remove the mirror, we can choose to see a particle or a wave because we are collapsing the wave function in one beam which automatically negates the possibility of the particle einb in the other beam.

Getting back to Schroedinger's cat, the wave function is collapsed by conscious observation but there is only one path that will contain the particle. The other paths, which were only possibilities are now negated. So if 100 people look in the box at the exact same moment, they will all see the same thing. Consciousness must be a unity. Therefore it is impossible that the brain manufactures consciousness or all consciousnesses would see something different. That they can only see the same collapsed wave function, the same state, each and every one, each and every time, could only be because consciousness is a unity. If consciousness is a unity, it cannot be manufactured by the brain. If it is not manufactured by the brain, then consciousness is separate from the brain.

In other words, there is no fixed objective world but neither is there a separate world for each consciousness because there is only one consciousness and objective reality is its dream.