The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #131699   Message #2992181
Posted By: TheSnail
23-Sep-10 - 09:15 AM
Thread Name: BS: The God Delusion 2010
Subject: RE: BS: The God Delusion 2010
GUEST,josep

It's called the Delayed-Choice Experiment and it was formulated by John Wheeler.....

Getting back to Schroedinger's cat, the wave function is collapsed by conscious observation but there is only one path that will contain the particle.....


Thank you for that Josep. So much more useful to give references than dogmatic unsupported statements such as "As I explained, QT has experimentally proved that consciousness collapses the wave function.".

Sorry for the delay in picking this up; I've been busy in real life.

Let's get a couple of things clear. The Delayed-Choice Experiment and Schrödinger's cat are thought experiments. No actual moggies were harmed. The Delayed-Choice Experiment was eventually carried out and produced the predicted behaviour for the photons. Wheeler just about lived to see this, but since he would have been 97 and in the last year of his life, we cannot know whether he appreciated this.

You say at one point "That's the classical physics way of thinking and it won't hold up against quantum physics." as if you believe that quantum physics supercedes classical physics. It does not. Both work pretty well in their own domain. Classical physics can accurately detect whether a cat is alive or dead and describe the behaviour of an apple falling from a tree, a planet orbiting the Sun or light bending round a distant massive galaxy. Quantam physics can describe the behaviour of a photon passing through a double slit. The problem arises when you devize experiments that attempt to combine both sorts of physics.

That is what Schroedinger was doing. Believing that his thought experiment "proves" that consciousness decides the collapse of the waveform shows a spectacular failure to understand the point he was making. You say " the cat is a quantum object". No, it isn't. That is precisely the point. It is a macroscopic object that obeys the rules of classical physics. It does not exist in a superposed state of dad and alive. It is one or the other, we just don't know which until we open the box. As Einstein said "Nobody really doubts that the presence or absence of the cat is something independent of the act of observation.". Except you, apparently.

I must admit I had never come across Wheeler's Delayed-Choice Experiment before. It sounds very interesting but the idea that it proves that consciousness collapses the wave form is, shall we say, not widely accepted. His extrapolations from the experiment have more to do with metaphysics than physics. He went even further than consciousness collapsing the waveform. Google on "Participatory Anthropic Principle" if you want your mind to be truly boggled.

I'm sorry, but your contention that "QT has experimentally proved that consciousness collapses the wave function." involves a lot of wishful thinking on your part very much in line with the link Amos posted earlier.