after your rant in response to my post it seems hypocritical steve to criticise josep, and gives me permission not to take your assertions seriously. any other fairminded readers can judge for themselves.i take it you only give challenges-never accept them.BTW the dawkins tv were full length programs on UK tv.foolsetroope-you are no doubt least to some extent correct as to history but not as far as you had accused creationists of being abusive on this thread.if there is an instance,post the date of such and i will apologize.steve has just given an example of how its done and what it looks like,bless him.