The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #133350   Message #3025878
Posted By: Bill D
07-Nov-10 - 11:02 AM
Thread Name: BS: The Atheist Delusion
Subject: RE: BS: The Atheist Delusion
I will make ONE comment, in line with similar comments I have made for 4-5-8-10? years here. I know many will not read or care that I do this.

It is not religion (theism) or lack or religion (a-theism) that is responsible for war and bigotry and hate and a dozen other sad conditions... nor are they responsible for, or can take credit for, peace, art, altruism, and a dozen other nice conditions.

Then what IS? Ignorance & stupidity (different conditions1), both leading to bad reasoning about life and people and 'how to live life among people. If one starts with fallacious premises, **no matter how they got them**, it is possible to find excuses to accept anything as a basis for interaction with others. Sadly, there is no formal way in all societies to instill any comprehensive concept of what 'good reasoning' would look & feel like.

[1]stupidity I use in the sense of actual 'limited capacity to learn', while ignorance denotes not having learned what one could learn...whether intentionally or thru flawed education.

It IS possible to use 'mostly' good reasoning and still be religious/theistic, but IF one uses 'good reasoning', he/she will also see the limitations of what they can see/do/prove/defend...etc. within a religious context.
It is also possible to use 'bad reasoning' and not be an evil, cruel, hateful, bigoted..etc., person, but this requires applying the bad reasoning in different places. (lots of explication required to clarify that point)

   Until & unless education begins to instill some comprehension of what it means to think coherently, even though actually DOING that remains difficult, there will be excessive and common strife, conflict, war, bigotry...etc. in society(s).

   If all this seems like some sort of rambling generalization to you, perhaps I have failed to clarify the 'idea' of good thinking well enough-- or perhaps **grin** you need some of that specialized education stuff I tout so highly. Scholars differ....

It will be obvious to anyone who has followed my ramblings that I TRY to use that "good reasoning" stuff, and that it leads me to a position of skepticism on many topics...including religion/theism. I do NOT claim that I always manage to avoid all the pitfalls in that VERY hard process of 'thinking'(.... there are many, many places where we humans can deceive even ourselves by rationalizing and not quite realizing how & why we are doing it...) but I DO claim and assert and insist that there ARE standards by which basic reasoning and decision making can be evaluated. That doesn't mean all humans should think exactly alike, but it DOES mean there are flawed, unsupportable and thus, 'wrong' ways which lead to many of humanities problems.

   I doubt that I will see much improvement in my relatively short time, and there are obviously those with a stake in NOT encouraging education which undermines their own power...which is already BASED on flawed reasoning. (See how we get terms like "vicious circle"?)

Ok...that's more than most will even bother to read, but this ain't something that fits into short, pithy aphorisms...although there are some which apply.

You may now resume your previously scheduled bickering...