The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #9466 Message #3057967
Posted By: Stower
20-Dec-10 - 02:52 PM
Thread Name: Origins: Is Green Sleeves really Irish?
Subject: RE: Origins: Is Green Sleeves really Irish?
GUEST of 20 Dec 10 - 11:59 AM, you have misunderstood.
I wrote, "it is an example of a passamezzo antico, an Italian minor key ground bass or chord progression, upon which a composer would fashion a tune."
You replied, "I could say that of any tune whatever that started with a minor chord, any tune from a Gregorian chant to a TV commercial. There is no reason to associate Greensleeves with anybody Italian."
No you could not say this of any tune starting with a minor chord. A passamezzo antico is a *particular* chord progression. If it doesn't have that chord progression, it's not a passamezzo antico. And I did not say Greensleeves was Italian nor associated with anyone Italian. I said it is based on a chord progression which originated in Italy - not at all the same thing.
"I believe Greensleeves was written by somebody Celtic because it probably wasn't about sleeves but about 'sliabh' a mountain" ... for which there is absolutely and completely no evidence. The only Irish thing about the tune is that the manuscript we first have the tune in is kept in an Irish library. That no more makes it an Irish tune than standing in a garage makes me a car.
"There are lots of songs about mountains, but whoever heard of anybody sighing over his lover's sleeves?" The song doesn't say this.
"Don't ask me to define Celtic. Asking somebody to define Celtic is like asking somebody to define purple or chocolatety. We all know what it means - enough for this discussion, anyway." I don't know what you mean by the word if you don't or can't say. If something cannot be defined then it cannot usefully be spoken of.