The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #134693   Message #3073722
Posted By: Steve Shaw
13-Jan-11 - 10:29 AM
Thread Name: BS: Young Earth Creationism
Subject: RE: BS: Young Earth Creationism
Well, LH, what you persistently play down in your long rant is the awkward fact that science is based on gathering evidence. I can see why that would not sit comfortably in your intricately-constructed argument, but it is the rather obstinate elephant in the room. It's true that I think that organised religion is virtually always a very bad thing, but I have been known to acknowledge that many people use religious faith to find a quiet path through life and I'm not going to deny them that for one second. That doesn't prevent me, though, from saying that you can achieve all the spirituality and intellectual satisfaction in your search for "the meaning of things" by standing up to your full height, rejecting the falsehoods that underlie all religious belief and finding a better path. There may not be organisations to put you on that path as easily as religiopns can do (in putting you on false ones) and you may have to do a lot on your rugged own, but that's life, and life doesn't have pat answers that can be found by first swatheing yourself in unnecessary mystery and falsehood. One of the points I'm always at pains to make is that the world, the universe and all their wonders are actually triumphantly ordinary, so normal. By eschewing mysticism and the supernatural I'm not seeing less - just the opposite, I'm seeing it all, with my eyes wide open. From my full height. Though there's no God, of course, the paradox is if he had really existed he would definitely have wanted me to take that very approach. He's not going to give me a good brain then want me to follow false leads. I'm not going to settle for wrong answers even if it means I get no answers at all. He'd rather approve of thst, I reckon.

I note that as you get through your post you slide uncomfortably away from religion more into "spirituality." I should like to challenge anyone of religious persuasion to demonstrate that they are better equipped than I am to explore their own or anyone else's "spirituality." You end up asking me which religious texts I've read and then, if not, challenge me as to how I can know about exploring spirituality. Well let me tell you bluntly that you don't need religious texts of any kind to explore spirituality. That's about as bogus as saying that moral values derive from religion.

And I'll just point out, as you seem to have joined the anti-atheist chorus, the double standard you promote when you defend the poor old believers when they stick their heads above the parapets. Have you actually bothered to look through recent threads to see just how atheists are treated? Thought not! Actually, look more closely. Atheists don't treat all believers the same, not by a long chalk. We don't shoot as soon as we see a Christian scalp. Instead of indulging in this superficial, broad-brush condemnation, go and do a bit of research through the threads and you'll find out why that is.

Finally, this bit o' bollix:

As to how old the Earth is, I think it's probably billions of years old. But why do I think that? Well, I think it because I grew up in a time (and a family) in which traditional science was the primary recognized authority, that's why! So I heard from other people that the Earth was many millions of years old, and I believed them. And that's all there is to it. I'm about as good at repeating the stuff I've been told as the rest of you are! ;-D And a parrot can do that too...

But do I know for sure if the scientists are right in their estimates of the age of the Earth? No. I don't know for sure. I just assume that they're probably fairly close to being correct, but I don't know. Neither does anyone else here. You're all making broad assumptions based on the prevailing mood of your society and whoever you were hanging out with in your impressionable years.

There's no need for anyone to accept without demur the authority of science or assume anything about how close to being correct scientists are. You can "do" a bit of scholarship yourself and look up the evidence. It's all gloriously available and it's not on dog-eared ancient scrolls either. You'll find peer-reviewing aplenty and evidence corroborating evidence in a most elegant way. You betray an awful lot about your thinking with this shrug-my-shoulders-what-are-the-boffins-up-to-now-it's-all-a-bit-beyond-me attitude to science. You can do better.