Very eloquent, Jim; & I do see what you mean. But this is, I fear, still anti-democratic. You recently denounced our present system because there are too few referenda {except, I think you said, in Ireland}: but now it appears that you hate & fear what the results of such referenda would probably be on this particular issue? I cannot escape the feeling that you are in something of a state of emotional confusion.

As am I ~~ as, indeed, I would urge, are we all: the point of my OP, I reiterate, is that all well-thinking people can see that punishment is generally a vain & disagreeable procedure which will solve little or nothing; but still no-one has ever managed to dispense with it or come up with a better idea.

~M~

A reminder: probably alone of all on this site, I actually knew Ruth Ellis & her victim; a fact I only mention again as of possible interest, as a sort of perverse name-drop perhaps, I admit, rather than as any sort of constructive contribution to the question at issue.