The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #128220   Message #3084682
Posted By: John Minear
29-Jan-11 - 10:45 AM
Thread Name: The Advent and Development of Chanties
Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
Gibb, I've been puzzling over these transitions from occasional, mostly random notices of chanty singing to the early "collections" in magazine articles to the later "published collections". I'm thinking off the top of my head here, but roughly speaking, the history seems to move from "actual practice in working situations" to a much more "literary" enterprise of "collecting". And the "literalizing" (?) of the genre roughly coincides with the phasing out of "actual" use in the workplace.

We've wondered why there were not more instances of mention of these chanties earlier on (say from 1840 to 1860) in the various accounts of the day. It seems that it is only when they become a literary phenomenon that things pick up. I was struck by your use of the phrase "the sort of people who hold the privilege of writing". This seems to signal the establishment of a "genre" for secondary interests. And of course there is also a feedback loop wherein the new published information can re-impact the original chanty singers. Surely we see that happening in someone like Harlow.

But what is occurring to me this morning is this. Is the process that we are observing with regard to "sea chanties" that runs roughly through the second half of the 19th century and into the beginning of the 20th century really any different from the same or a similar process that happened in relation to other genres of "traditional folk music". Child published his "collection" of ballads between 1882 and 1898. These were primarily if not exclusively drawn from literary sources. Child seemed to think that actual living oral sources no longer existed or weren't worth seeking out. He certainly ignored the oral situation in America! It wasn't until Cecil Sharp came along in the early 20th century (following the lead of Olive Dame Campbell and others) that the American oral traditions began to be tapped and recorded. What kinds of literary evidence do we have in the 19th century for the "ballads"? I am aware of the Broadside dimension. But what about the worksongs and play party songs, etc. that were being sung throughout the 1800's? Are they any more noted than were the sea chanties? Has anybody even done the kind of re-searching for these sources for other folk songs that you have been doing with the chanties?

In other words, what happens when we place "the advent and development of chanties" in the larger historical context of the "advent and development" of "folk" music in general throughout the 19th century and go looking for the published remains for other "folk" songs? Could we learn anything about the process that affected the mentioning and collecting of sea chanties? And would this possibly highlight how they might have been unique (for instance they were supposedly "never sung ashore" or were "too obscene")?

When I've gone looking for the "origins" of a particular folksong, I have never gone behind or beyond the early collections. It will be interesting in the future to apply the "Google book search" method to this process and see what comes up. My guess is that it is going to be about as scarce as it has been for sea chanties.