Thanks, Snuffy. That's exactly the kind of info that I, for one, am looking for!...or *will* be looking for when I get far enough along to critique Carpenter's singers. Unfortunately I've been overloaded with masses of data so far yet in the recently-published material through the 1880s. I can't wait, however, to study the Carpenter stuff more closely and see how it might fit. We do have one published source, albeit from the 1880s, that also attributes "Bully in the Alley" to the 50s, which is great corroboration. I do maintain, however, that it is *generally* difficult to trust the shanty knowledge of someone interviewed in the 1920s, even if they went to sea in the 50s/60s, that the shanties they know weren't necessarily learned afterwards. In this case, the date they *left* the trade becomes equally important. The exception is when they do specify when they learned the song, as in the examples you provided.

John - Big thoughts! Too bad not too many of the "general" folk music people are reading this (I'm sure we lost them long ago...the posts are too long, and there is not enough bickering :) ). Otherwise you'd be blowing their minds, ha!

Leadfingers-- Uh, yeah? What's more, all the posts have been substantial. Thanks for giving the old "Mudcat blessing" of a one-word random post! ;D