'Why would you want to help the perpetrators?'

Well if a tenth of what you're saying is right, they need help and plenty of it to adjust to living in our sort of society. The other option is sticking them all in the clink, which isn't really feasible.

What weakens the other side of rthe debate is ofcourse the endless persoanl abuse - now everyone is who disagress, or has had different thoughts and experiences is a brainless vicious bigot.

Liz is not a vicious brainless bigot. I have read her posts for years. I would not fantasise about a vicious brainless bigot.

This Brian May. i don't think he's the one out of Queen. I don't trust anyone who quotes the Daily mail as authoritative. he's well to the right of me politically. personally, Cameron playing the race card depresses the bollocks off me.

Keith says he's a Labour supporter. But he's obviously a bit like me in that I knew when Hattersly lost out to Kinnock in the 80's( so hot on the heels of Michael Foots humiliation) , the left wing of that party were politically unreachable and unelectable within our lifetimes. Consequently the stuff he comes out with ruffles the feathers of left wingers, sinn feinners and other idealists. The certainty with which he states a view that is essentially compromised is a reflection of his personality. he seems proud of views that I share, but i find I have no pride in holding.

If you find this company vicious, bigotted and brainless - just who do you debate with - yourself presumably. No wonder , you're unused to hearing differing opinions.