The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #136495   Message #3122270
Posted By: Steve Shaw
26-Mar-11 - 05:56 PM
Thread Name: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun
2: For UN to pay any attention to anything any Palestinian delegation might say that Palestinian delegation would have to state very clearly and very forcefully that it recognises Israel's borders, sovereignty and right to exist free from any threat of attack. It should be remembered that the UN was the first body to recognise the state of Israel followed by the Governments of the USA and the USSR. Hamas will never accept that and that is why the international community refuse to recognise Hamas as the Government of anybody.

Well gosh, it's clear whose side you're on. You want the UN to pay attention to the Palestinians only when the latter promise to recognise Israel's borders. That's a laugh, innit, considering that Israel has been in breach of UN resolutions regarding borders for almost half a century. In addition, you want Israel, uniquely on this planet, to be free from any threat of attack. You fail to spell out what Israel itself might have to do to expedite this, as though it would just be a matter of everyone else in the region just lying down and letting Israel get on with whatever they want to get on with. I'll remind you that, inconveniently for you and your fellow-traveller Israel apologists, Hamas was elected in free and fair elections, and I would also remind you that if you ever want to get people to change you have to sit down with them and negotiate, not demonise them in the way you have done in this post. Even Ian Paisley will tell you that. Since when has it been OK to collectively punish a million and a half people, as in Gaza, because they voted the way you didn't want them to? You know damn well that there has to be no such thing as "never" in politics, and that, one fine day, someone will sit down with Hamas and negotiate, and that Hamas will find accommodation with Israel. There are factions within Hamas who already acknowledge that that must happen one day. Anyone, like you, who persists in confusing silly megaphone rhetoric with hard reality has simply not learned the lessons of history. Your timeline account of the recent history of this conflict, apart form being exceptionally partial in its detail as I've already indicated, also completely omits any mention of the perfectly justified grievances of the Palestinians before and during the birth of Israel. I could also add that you neglect to mention the utterly disproportionate responses of Israel to attacks (which I condemn, actually, believe it or not). In ten years, around a dozen Israelis have been killed by Hamas rockets, whilst at the same time around twenty children per year are killed either by Israeli snipers or, worse, remote-controlled firearms, for the sin of playing within 300 metres of the Gaza border. Cast Lead killed 1300 Gazan civilians, including 300 children. In the same operation, Israeli casualties numbered just thirteen soldiers. Hundreds of Palestinians are currently incarcerated in Israeli jails without charge and without knowing why they are there. Almost 300 Palestinian children are in custody in Israel. The building of illegal settlements continues apace. A Palestinian approaching an Israeli roadblock will typically wait for two days to get through (for Israeli Jews it's instantaneous, of course). Whole families have been divided, and farmland stolen, by the construction of that apartheid wall. Israeli attacks on Gaza destroyed schools, hospitals, power stations and water works, and now building materials are not allowed in to allow reconstruction.

I think that you, and other apologists for Israel's atrocities, had better address each and every one of these points, one by one, before coming out with further "justifications" predicated mainly on apparent serious memory lapses. If you have any interest at all in being fair, that is. I probably shouldn't be holding my breath, should I.