Jim,

"I have not commented on the claimed over-representation of young Pakistani men in these crimes; I have stated from the beginning that I believe we have nowhere near enough information to arrive at any firm conclusions. I do have opinions on the reason, but they are as ill-informed as any that have been made so far, hence my reluctance to put them forward."
"Nobody had denied anything here; we question how much we know about the events and their causes; certainly not enough to blame a whole culture"

I seem to have failed to note these comments. I suspect I've been too sidetracked by the ongoing polarisation of opinions being umm 'presented' here - which have appeared to me - to overlook the seriousness and indeed extent of the issue in the pursuit of a more personal war of attrition, to which I have succumbed to my own weariness.

While I naturally assume that the right, and far-right in particular, will quite obviously make play of such controversy as has been aroused by the cases being discussed here, what matters more to me, is that the left do not seek to diminish the seriousness of these cases (something which I believe has indeed happened in some posts here) either in order to be seen to "win" or because, they have a possible lurking disregard for 'white working class easy chavs' (who are all just ignorant racists anyway).

In particular I noted what I perceived to be a summary dismissal of "tip of the iceberg" type assertions made by those who have - despite disinterest from the authorities - been steadfastly working with, and as advocates for, victims of these crimes, as though such "mere anecdotes" are utterly meaningless and worthless.

My apologies if I have mischaracterised any of the participants in this discussion when stating that I felt myself to be alienated and occupying unfamiliar political turf more usually occupied by others of a different stripe. As I fear I may have done so.

Jim, you mat find I will contact you by other means (you know me by other means) as I think I'd like to take up your offer to discuss some of my concerns elsewhere.

Meanwhile.. Keith, I haven't really enjoyed watching you dropping your pants. It's been a bit icky..