Lox - I couldn't agree more with your post of 07 Apr 11 - 07:33 AM

"On the subject of Hitler being Human,

I agree that it is good that people should realize this.

But why is it important?

It is important because people need to face up to tthe reality that it was not a war between the Humans and the Nazis, but a war between people and people."


Exactly! And very well put. Millions of Germans initially supported Hitler for reasons that were understandable for the population of a country recently defeated in a great war, punished severely in a very punitive settlement, economically devastated, deprived of most of its armed forces, and deprived of large chunks of its national territory which got parcelled out to various neighbouring nations.

Hitler gave a lot of bitter and angry Germans hope that they could restore their country to its former place among nations...so naturally, they supported him. They did not foresee the horrors the Nazis would bring. One can say they should have...but this is with the benefit of hindsight.

I wonder how many of us, if born German in those times, would have enthusiastically supported Hitler in the early years? We really have no way of knowing.

In any case, I think your post was very perceptive and it hits the nail right on the head.

Regarding my statement "there was actually no need for Hitler to go to war at all in 1939"...you've misinterpreted my meaning there. I wasn't saying that it was at all likely that he wouldn't go to war against the Poles! I think it was, in fact, inevitable that he would, because he was utterly set on doing so, and he was utterly set on eventually attacking and destroying Soviet Russia.

I was simply proposing theoretical possibilities of what could have happened if Hitler had been a balanced, sane, and reasonable man, that's all. If so, he would not have attacked either Poland or Russia. He would not have attacked anyone militarily. But a balanced and reasonable German leader might still well have done some of the other things Hitler did, such as reoccupying the Rhineland, restoring Germany's armed forces, and rebuilding the economy.

I was simply proposing theoretical possibilities of what someone else might have done in Hitler's place, and I'm saying there was absolutely NO necessity for Germany to go to war with anyone in 1938 or 1939 or anytime at all...and if they'd been run by some sensible political party instead of the Nazis, then they would probably not have done so.

Given the crazy philosophy embraced by Hitler, Himmler, Goebbels, and the other top Nazis, though, there was no way they weren't going to get into a war. And I think everyone in Europe knew that by the mid to late 30s. Accordingly, everyone was hurriedly arming to prepare for it.

What surprised Hitler was when the French and British declared war on him over Poland. He was expecting them to back down.

****

As you have said, Lox,

"The lesson is - You could do that - I could do that - Ordinary people did that - not outcasts, or extremists, but middle of the road loyal patriotic well meaning Germans.

All the same flesh and blood as you and I.

The battle against Nazism goes on within us today.

It goes on on newsnight, on question time and on this forum.

Who do we need to watch out for?

the worst culprits of all - you and I. "

Right on! That is the real point, and that is why I think "Der Untergang" is such a fine movie, because it shows most clearly how perfectly ordinary and quite decent people got drawn in willy-nilly, mostly simply due to their own national origin, and they supported the Hitler government and fought for it in that war. It could, and can happen anywhere. At any time. In any nation.

The "little man within", the Nazi, can be born inside perfectly ordinary people anywhere. It just takes the right political conditions (an angry and very frustrated population) and an unscrupulous, ruthless group of leaders at the top to make it happen.

You won't be able to identify them by the obvious outer signs either when and if it happens...what I mean is, instead of wearing a German cross or a swastika, they might have flags and armbands that sport...

- the Union Jack
- the French Tricolor
- the Italian Tricolor
- the Stars and Stripes
- the Red Star
- the Star of David
- the Crescent Moon
- the Maple Leaf
- the Russian flag
- the Rising Sun
- the Iranian or Egyptian or Syrian or Indian flags, etc...

Or any other symbol out there...because it can happen anywhere. And under any political label.