""Richard, I am not sure what you want.
My understanding is that an incursion (violation) can be justified on grounds of national self defence.
If so, the argument is about whether or not national self defence can be claimed in this case.""

Keith, since you have set yourself up as the definitive expert upon military matters both procedural and legal, perhaps you would explain to me what likelihood you see, of any judge allowing a self defense claim from the aggressor in a fight.

you wouldn't get that concept past any primary school teacher.

Tommy claims Billy punched him on the nose.
Billy says it was in self defense.
Tommy retorts that Billy threw the only punch in the incident.

Billy says "I did it in self defense Miss, I hit him back before he could hit me"!

Who thinks that the claim of self defense has any merit?.....And it is even more unlikely to succeed if Billy had to knock Tommy's front door down to do it.

I think that dog is seriously unlikely to hunt.

As for protesting on behalf of Pakistan Keith, nothing so altruistic I'm sorry to say.

I don't give a flying fuck about the human rights or the death of ObL.

I care almost as little for the plight of a Pakistani government which couldn't apparently find its collective arse without a road map.

What I do care about is having my own and my family's safety compromised by the cavalier actions of a nation which is supposed to be an ally, and having my intelligence insulted by the leaders of that nation claiming to have made me and the rest of the World safer.

SAFER FROM WHOM? After all, we've just seen what that nation does to its "allies" whenever it feels inclined.

Which of you is going to stand up and say that your governments are worthy of OUR trust?

And you had better have some damn convincing argument, because I'm feeling nostalgic about the Cold War, when two bullies wouldn't fight because neither could be sure of winning.

Consider this....It's only since the USSR collapsed, leaving the US as supreme military power that we, or you, have had this trouble with terrorists.

And before you dive in Keith, Northern Ireland was a separate issue, and last time I looked, not Muslim.

Don T.