The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #114519   Message #3223113
Posted By: Jim Carroll
14-Sep-11 - 12:04 PM
Thread Name: BS: Slavery still active-
Subject: RE: BS: Slavery still active-
"It seems somewhat bizarre that Jim Carroll argues that Irish Pikeys have been part of the agricultural landscape for hundreds of years "
First hand information from many of the farming families we recorded in Ireland and Britain that bears out the fact that Travellers were an essential part of the rural economy right up to the middle of the 20th century is to be found in abundance in our collection at the British Library.
Huge amounts of evidence in the writings of Hamish Henderson, Norman Dodds, Sharon and George Gmelch, Artelia Court and Alen McWeeney.
Probably the most authorative work on English gypsies is by Angus Fraser, a civil servant and Chairman of the Board of Customs and Excise for HMG (The Gypsies - part of the People of Europe series Blackwell publishers 1992 - re-printed twice)
Periodicals like 'Scottish Studies', 'Tocher' 'Bealoideas' 'Folklore', 'The Folksong Journal' all carry masses of information on the Travellers role in rural life - perhaps you can find somebosy to read some of it to you sometime.
More information from School of Scottish Studies, Aberdeen University, Limerick and Galway Universities, University College Dublin
Now can you tell us where we can find your view verified in any way (apart from the fascist rags that don't even make it to the bookshops)
"Pikeys are not by most definitions a race or ethnic group."
Travellers are a recognised ethnic group - you've had the quote from the Times - perhaps you couldn't get anyone to read if for you first time round, so here it is again:

1,000 years of prejudice, hatred and distrust
There are few tales that begin in the Indian sub-continent and Irish marshlands during the first millennium after the birth of Christ and reach Basildon in Essex 1,000 years later.
In between there are travels through eastern Europe, Irish famines and Nazi killing camps. Then there are the prejudices, the disputes and the clashing of communities. The history of the 300,000-strong travelling communities, now encamped on 8,000-plus pitches in England, is complex.
First, there are the groupings: the Roma, who are believed to have emerged from Asia 1,000 years ago and to have split into the Romany of western Europe, the Domari of the Middle East and Eastern Europe and the Lomavren of Central Europe.
The Irish Travellers refer to themselves as Pavees and share a common language, Shelta. A study earlier this year provided DNA evidence that it is a distinct ethnic minority, which separated from the settled Irish community between 1,000 and 2,000 years ago. Previously, it was believed that they were landowners who took to the road during the Great Famine. In 2000, they were ruled to be a distinct ethnic group, while Gypsies gained this status in 1976.
Then there are the New Age travellers whose crusty roots lie in the hippy culture of the mid-20th century. One can also throw in a sprinkling of Scottish Travellers, with their own musical and linguistic traditions dating back to the 12th century, and the Travelling Showpeople who have entertained generations with their fairgrounds and circuses.
Gypsies were one of the ethnic groups targeted by the Nazis. At least 250,000 were killed in the Holocaust.

You boasted of your father's part in the war, yet you make it clear that you would applaud a repeat of the massacre of three quarters of a million gypsies by the same breed of scum that he fought.

"I call an expert witness!"
Sorry Keith - evidence over-rides character witnesses in any court, especially the one you have produced here - hardly unbiased.
Your suggestion that all male Pakistanis are culturally inclined to paedophelia speaks for itself - it's nobody else's statement, and even if it was, it really doesn't matter - it's an incredible piece of racist stereortyping - and it's yours alone. You have never produced an actual quote from anybody saying such, "All male Pakistanis......". You put it forward as your belief, and your putting it forward makes it your responsibility. Such a piece of non- researched shite would put a whole community under suspicion in respect to children's welfare were it to be taken seriously - thankfully it belongs to you only - alongside the BNP, English Defence League and other racists.
Unlike speech, the problem with putting something on a public forum is that you can't un-write it - it's there as a reference point for as long as it's archived.
Jim Carroll