I will post a separate thing on this but Camp Alexandra handled it very well I think..now they have the advantage of having several nice rooms where people can find something to their liking..and Sunnycamp is very restricted as to space, especially space that can be heated..which is why I have been so honest about our preferences and people can join us or not as they choose...anyway, they just told people that people have different preferences and if you find a group doing stuff in a certain way, leave them to it. Join them if you are OK doing it that way, but do not break into their group and insist on doing it your way, which is what has happened almost everywhere I have been...and I am talking about groups that have distanced themselves from the main song circle area. They also had people sign up for certain rooms..like there is a group up there that likes unacommpanied singing..they could have..but didn't this time..sign up for a group. I signed up for a chaos group..no turns. Another person signed up for a traidtional song circle where you could use books etc. What has been missing for so many years is just direct honesty..that there are different preferences..major big preferences...big enough that people will quit coming to certain events..and it is very easy to solve in a camp with several rooms to sort people out in (again, we do not have that luxury in Sunnycamp). mg