I stand by my assertion, but am not going to go and look through my accounts of the Middle East situation to accumulate the evidence - sorry. And, Marxist of the Groucho persuasion, you and I could go on exchanging our perceptions on this ad nausium (I guess we already have). And if you see my position as anti-semitic then so be it; that, too, is a common tactic for distracting attention from the issues.

So, to try to add something to the debate - I agree with those who say that Religion (per see) is not an issue here. In the same way as it's not, really, an issue in Ireland. But it's used by both sides . . the extreme "Religious Right" in Israel, and the muslim idea of "holy martyrdom".

And, Standing Bear, I accept all you said in your last post, except where you categorised it as "naive sounding and sappy". So I'll not post anything else in this thread, beyond regreting the fact that my expression of the truth AS IT APPEARS TO ME no doubt causes genuine distress to some readers here; I'm sorry for your pain, but still believe what I said needs saying.

G.