Well, if there is no hope, then we are all fucked, and we should close this thread and several more as they are nothing but mental masterbation.

Your assumption may prove accurate, michaelr. I agree that Obama has not been effective in passing an agenda I can generally endorse. How Where we may differ is that I am not convinced anyone not furthering the right-wing conservative agenda could be successful in bringing to fruition a more balanced national agenda or plan at this point in history.

A conservative or libertarian president would have undoubtedly been much more effective in working with a cooperative Congress to bring to fruition any number of measures that either Wall Street or Christian social conservatives believe are crucial.

Define effective. And who gets to define effective?