Since the 1960's the whole debate has been bedevilled by simplistic rhetoric. The actual issues are hard to define.

Someone said about Macmillan that his memoirs read like Talleyrand, but his actual policy was relieving England of the empire and its commitments and finding policies more in line with our modern contracted status.

The right wing of the tory party has never really been on board with this - and sees our natural allies as the Commonwealth countries. They cling to every vestige of empire from the Falklands to Northern Ireland.

I suppose it depends if we are going to keep up the world policing duties alongside the USA.   If so, Europe is a dead loss as a military ally.

I'd say the schizophrenia with regard to Europe is there deep in the heart of England. not just the tory party. ignore the debate and you hand it to the BNP and the right, which glories in it - but whose only real policy is turning the clock back.

Theres no real reason why we shouldn't have our own codes of health and safety and workers rights - the equal if not superior to Europe's without reference to agencies outside this country. No reason why we shouldn't have a proper constitution. perhaps its time to thoroughly overhaul the whole country - get rid of the monarchy, get rid of the house of Lords - just modernise England along the lines we need and choose.