"Joe, the effective forces that are acting for good within the church don't, apparently, have anything to say about the church's official policies."

The same can be said about many of the world's countries, among them USA, Canada, and the conglomerate called the UK. John P, I do not know that you are from any of the three, but what you said speaks to policies, not members within the specific groups. We all try to 'change things for the better', and often we fail. We are all of us failing now in terms of love thy neighbour and do unto others as you would they do unto you. Because we are failing is not because we don't try.

I think Joe's post is accurate and quite brilliant, although I think his modesty will cause him to pshaw that notion.

With Don, I too will stand beside Joe. Not because he's Joe, but because he's right, and I wish I'd said it first.

BM