Jeez, I hate to keep throwing cold water, but why in the world are you trying to argue with Joe about Catholic tenets of faith? Joe has made it abundantly clear that all that stuff isn't what his religious experience is all about. My own experience tells me that most Catholics think about that stuff for about five minutes in catechism and never again, since it is so patently not important to anyone's life. If you're not a Catholic, what possible difference does it make to you? What does it have to do with the Pope speaking out against gay rights? The Catholic Church can teach anything it likes within the confines of the church. The only time the rest of us get to comment is when they inflict themselves on the rest of us, like when a world-renowned leader makes public comments or when they spend a lot of money buying laws for themselves.