The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #142469   Message #3290960
Posted By: TheSnail
15-Jan-12 - 12:52 PM
Thread Name: Why didn't MacColl like Dylan?
Subject: RE: Why didn't MacColl like Dylan?
Jim Carroll

I have no objection to an all round discussion of MacColl, warts and all- I do object to discussions where the warts become the focus of discussion to the exclusion of all else..

I quite agree but I'm puzzled by you repeted denial, despite all the evidence, that MacColl was hostile to Dylan and equally puzzled by why you have felt it necessary to attack Dylan right from you first post to this thread.

Can't help noticing that you put in my "Whys" but did not include, or answer the questions I asked - so hear they are again.

No point in wasting space on something that was already there on the thread. I didn't answer the questions, but I did respond. It starts at "I don't know" in my post. How could I possibly know what went through the mind of John Brune? I'd never heard of him before he cropped up on MacColl threads. Likewise for your other "Whys". Ask the people involved and when you find out, could you let me know? As I tried to indicate, the common factor in all these is MacColl himself so perhaps that is where you need to look for an answer.

If he 'badmouthed' Dylan, he didn't do it when I was there,

No "If" about it Jim, Frankie Armstrong said "He was, at that point, very definitely badmouthing Bob Dylan". Hamish MacColl says "It was Bob Dylan, wanting to speak to my dad. But my dad hated Bob Dylan, he hated the Beatles"

and he certainly didn't do it in public (or if he did, nobody has been able to point out where or when).

Numerous references have been made in this thread to interviews and articles in Melody Maker and Sing Out!. Try Googling on "watery pap of pop music".

If he did it within the confines of the Critics Group, I haven't come across it on the recordings, but - what if he did?
There are a number of threads going at present, all containing extreme examples of MacColl being "badmouthed" publicly - "Do you have any comment on that?"

Ewan MacColl and Bob Dylan were, in their different ways, major figures in what, under a variety of definitions, is called "folk" music or, at least, its revival and popularisation. In the early sixties, their worlds overlapped for a while. How they interacted and what they thought of each other is of interest to those of us who developed their musical tastes in that period. Anybody is entitled to their opinion. I am not criticising MacColl for disliking Dylan. If I knew his reasons, I might even agree with him. What MacColl thought of Dylan is interesting. What folknob thought of MacColl is not.

"Aren't we allowed to know about the whole man?"
Wouldn't chance be a fine thing!!

Indeed it would, but declaring certain areas off limits isn't the way to do it.

"Are you saying Hamish MacColl was lying about his father?"
Don't you dare distort what I said -

I didn't distort anything; I asked a question.

I did not claim Hamish was lying; I do not doubt for one minute that MacColl said what he was reported to have said - nothing more than that.

So why do you declare his evidence as inadmissible?

Nor did I say I accepted Campbell's "joke" - I said I am prepared to accept it - I might have added "if somebody provides the argument to convince me" - but had I done so, that would have deprived you of an opportunity to score points.

Do you want to take part in an adult, intelligent debate or not, Jim?

I qualified what I said by pointing out the effect I believe Campbell's (and others) "joke" (or otherwise) has had on the revival in geneal - as I said - go and open up the "do standards matter" and similar threads.

You have remarkable faith in the power of a rather feeble joke. I've always been inclined to think he was satirising those who already thought that way. Did he play out of tune, by the way?