And it still comes back to the question: what is good and evil? Who defines it? For the Buddhist, you 'create your own reality', and that includes your morals--what you believe to be good or bad. The atheist is in the same boat, since there is no 'higher authority' to define good and evil. The ultimate authority is the human mind, which we all know to be finite. (at least, I'm assuming we all know that...... ;)

Iona, what a lot of hooey, that "human mind is finite." Humans make their own gods, they invest them with powers and are able to do great things because of that act. But you've confused the source of infinity.

In the short time I've been reading this thread I've seen you attempt to do two things to control the conversation: earlier, you remarked that atheists couldn't discuss these topics without using biblical language, suggesting that our terms sprang from the religion. This is an old trick to fool people who haven't thought it out. Like saying "Every religion has a word for 'god.'" Well, they may or many not have a god word, but they also all have a word for "mother," "father," "eat," "shit" and many other words define universal describing and naming aspects of the human and world condition.

Language is far reaching and while portions of it, words, collections of words, references apply to religion, this is after the fact. The language came first and while portions have been appropriated by or identified with religions, many of us understand that using the words is not the same as inventing them and they do not come from your supercharged text.

And the quote above - it presumes that there is a god or a higher power and works from that point. It presumes there are only two possibilities - good or evil - this kind of simplified binary opposition is very easy to use in religious settings but simply isn't realistic in the real world. We live our lives on a sliding scale, there are more than two options to just about everything.

Another problem that exists is that christian believers too often it presume that "evil" can be defeated, that it is here because there is something wrong with how we live, a consequence of not really believing hard enough in your god. I prefer the view that I found in many early American Indian writings and filters into modern Indian writing - storytellers and tricksters illustrate that evil is simply a part of the world and one must be aware of it in order to avoid it or keep it under control, but it is here to stay.

And I'm here to tell you that "morality" as a word and concept existed WAY BEFORE the organized christian religion. Look to the ancient Greek philosophers and their understanding of morals and ethics. The concept is used within your religious context where it has been borrowed, but the moral high ground, i.e., our own moral compasses don't point toward your cockeyed religion. They are an innate part of the sense of fair play and cooperation that extends beyond human understanding or religious teachings.

Recent studies show cooperation and compassion, sharing and assistance among rats. Countless stories of animal assistance to humans and vice versa being understood as an altruistic gesture. Fair play, kindness, cooperation, they don't come from the bible. They're part of the world condition that story tellers who contributed to the bible highlighted and tried to encourage as a good way to live. They decided they liked the

Morality is regarded here as a set of customs and habits that shape how we think about how we should live. The term 'religion' is much disputed. Again, we can learn from the etymology. The origin of the word is probably the Latin religare, to bind back. Not all uses of the term require reference to a divinity or divinities. But the term is used here so that there is such a reference, and a religion is a system of belief and practice that accepts a 'binding' relation to such a being or beings. This does not, however, give us a single essence of religion, since the conceptions of divinity discussed here are so various, and human relations with divinity are conceived so variously that no such essence is apparent even within Western thought. Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, Ancient Greek Philosophy

Your view of the world and the religious practice appears to assume dominance over all things and other beliefs, it doesn't know how to "live and let live," as some other religions do. Not all - there are hard-headed individuals around the world beating up on others who don't accept their beliefs. Pity.
The gist of this is that you're playing word games in an attempt to convince people that your argument is valid, but the word games are easily revealed.

SRS