The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #143239   Message #3313221
Posted By: GUEST,Teribus
25-Feb-12 - 11:18 AM
Thread Name: BS: Homs horror (Syria, 2012)
Subject: RE: BS: Homs horror
Ammunition, Christmas, small arms ammunition.

The "sniper" bullets were your spin not mine, because they are not "sniper" rounds at all just standard rifle ammunition. So if they are in your eyes classified as "sniper" bullets then ALL bullets are "sniper" bullets - fits in nicely with your equally ludicrous "small arms arms" thing.

"White Phosphorus"?? According to the Convention on certain Conventional Weapons and the Chemical Weapons Convention - neither list White Phosphorus as a Chemical Weapon - I will take their word for it (After all just who the fuck is Jim Carroll to tell the world anything)

"Agent Orange" - classified as a defoliant not a Chemical Weapon.

"they are not even being "slaughtered" by British ammunition."

Where is your proof that they are being slaughtered by British ammunition - you have offered nothing apart from newspaper articles referring to the fact that a licence had been granted, not that anything had actually been sold, or delivered.

"there is a possibility (probability at the beggining of the suppression) that the ammunition used could have been British - or, as with Syria, do you know something we don't?
both sides were using British supplied weapons"


What's with the "as with Syria"??? I am only talking about Syria where you claim that the British (as in the British Government) sold weapons to Assad's Regime.

A private individual (NOT the British Government) obtained an export licence (from the British Government) to sell £30,000 worth of small arms ammunition to Syria in 2009. There is no evidence or proof that those rounds were ever delivered.

The standing Army of Syria numbers some 220,000 men and at anytime there are also 300,000 reserves and those doing "national service". I know that your knowledge of military matters may be a bit slight (others might say non-existent) but do you suppose that any of the 220,000 regulars or any of the 300,000 reservists + conscripts who have cycled through the Syrian Army system since 2009 were ever given any weapons training? Do you suppose that that training involved any "live-firing"?

£30,000 would buy you about 111,000 rounds which would over two years work out at a total range allowance of 4,583 rounds per month or 153 per day and you are training and keeping current some 520,000 men. The vast majority would not use the 7.62 NATO stuff because Russia sells them their guns (not Britain)and when all said and done the vast majority of them will not be trained as snipers. Having said that this is what is said about training as a military sniper:

"Military sniper training aims to teach a high degree of proficiency in camouflage and concealment, stalking, observation and map reading as well as precision marksmanship under various operational conditions. Trainees typically shoot thousands of rounds over a number of weeks, while learning these core skills."

So I would say that it would be highly unlikely (improbable) that any of the £30,000 worth of ammunition bought (if indeed it ever was) two years ago would still be available.

Another question for you Christmas, it is a simple matter of commonsense and logic:
The situation is that you are going to go into action as a sniper in the Syrian Army you basically have a choice of two weapons:

Rifle No.1:
Dragunov semi-automatic (self-loading) 10 shot magazine, that fires ammunition that at a pinch you could re-supply from any tank, armoured personnel carrier or machine gunner in the Syrian Army. If your own rifle gets damaged you can pick up any one of two other types which are almost identical and carry on.

Rifle No.2:
Steyr SSG69 bolt-action (i.e. you have to manually load after each shot) 5 shot magazine, that fires what can only be considered rather unique ammunition for the Syrian Army. Your supply of ammunition is limited to what you can personally carry. If your rifle gets damaged - you are stuffed.

Come on Christmas tell us what your weapon of choice would be.

What has what Britain has sold to Bahrain and Libya got to do with Syrians being "slaughtered" in Homs? Nothing, unless of course you are saying that the Libyans and the Government of Bahrain are arming Assad? Which we know they are not.

Who is "Denis Mugabe"?? and why should we sell anything, harmless or otherwise, to him??

"and your claiming that the Syrians paid so much for ammunition that could not be used by their military....."

Well no Christmas Pudding I didn't claim that, I asked the question "What use NATO ammunition would be to the Syrians" and either pdq or Guest999 answered it stating that the Syrians had bought Steyr SSG69 rifles. All quite logical really if you don't know something ask a question - But please note Christmas for that system to work you have to listen to the answer using those things on either side of your head that you appear only to use to help keep your spectacles in place and your hat from falling over your eyes.

Britain comes third in the league table relating to defence budgets
Britain comes fifth in the league table relating to arms exports