Ian Mather is quite right and once again I find myself having to apologise for my part in these stupid arguments - whenever Keith and I find ourselves on the same thread we invariably end up at he opposite end of the spectrum, which always seems to degenerate into a head-to-head between us - can't say it won't happen again, but for me it stops here as far as this thread is concerned. On this subject - there are two alternatives as I see them - that this apalling event is a religious matter and can (and has) happened everywhere and throughout history - this is the explanation as far as I'm concerned. The other is that it is a racial matter brought about by immigrants (from Africa - wherever that is) and has to be treated and cured as such. The danger of accepting the latter is that is is open to abuse by those who would use 'foreigners' as an explanation for all our ills - as indicated here in a number of postings. Jim Carroll