The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #142452   Message #3327394
Posted By: Penny S.
22-Mar-12 - 08:34 PM
Thread Name: BS: Young Earth Creationism Eureka!
Subject: RE: BS: Young Earth Creationism Eureka!
I can't find anythiing but my New English and Revised English versions at the moment, and have broken a filing cabinet beyond repair trying to find the Revised Standard (it was only chipboard.) So i have resorted to the internet, and am using the NIV, as pete does.

Genesis 1, day 3:

11 Then God said, "Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds." And it was so. 12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.

Genesis 1, day 6

24 And God said, "Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind." And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.
    26 Then God said, "Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

27 So God created mankind in his own image,
   in the image of God he created them;
   male and female he created them.


The word "then", used in all the texts, does imply that the one act follows the other, as does the word "so".

Genesis 2, day unspecified:

5 Now no shrub had yet appeared on the earth[a] and no plant had yet sprung up, for the LORD God had not sent rain on the earth and there was no one to work the ground, 6 but streams[b] came up from the earth and watered the whole surface of the ground. 7 Then the LORD God formed a man[c] from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

Genesis 2, immediately after the above.

8 Now the LORD God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden; and there he put the man he had formed. 9 The LORD God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground—trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

10 A river watering the garden flowed from Eden; from there it was separated into four headwaters. 11 The name of the first is the Pishon; it winds through the entire land of Havilah, where there is gold. 12 (The gold of that land is good; aromatic resin[d] and onyx are also there.) 13 The name of the second river is the Gihon; it winds through the entire land of Cush.[e] 14 The name of the third river is the Tigris; it runs along the east side of Ashur. And the fourth river is the Euphrates.

15 The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die."

18 The LORD God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him."


The plants clearly follow the creation of Adam, rather than preceding him by 3 days.

Genesis 2, immediately after the above.

19 Now the LORD God had formed out of the ground all the wild animals and all the birds in the sky. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. 20 So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds in the sky and all the wild animals.

Here the NIV has, as Pete says, "had formed".

The Revised English has "So from the earth he formed all the wild animals...

KJV has 19And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

20And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.


The New English has "So God formed out of the ground..."

Revised Standard - So out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them; and whatever the man called every living creature, that was its name.

New Revised Standard -
19 So out of the ground the LORD God formed every animal of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them; and whatever the man called every living creature, that was its name.

So most of these scholarly researched versions have missed this verbal tense variation, and use the preposition "so" to imply a time sequence which is not there?

So back to sources, and a recent translation of the Septuagint:

And out of the Earth God furthermore formed all the animals of the field...

Furthermore does not equate to "had formed".

And from a translation from Hebrew:

And out of the ground YHWH Elohim formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air..

No so, or furthermore, but also no "had", and I think in this case they should know what they are translating. There is a note by the verb which defines it as imperfect, or continuous past, as in "was forming", implying a making process like that by which the man was made, moulded out of soil.

The structure of the narrative is that God creates a male human, and then brings the animals to find him a companion, and then, when that fails, resorts to making a woman. The story demands that the animals appear before the woman, or it doesn't work. It also demands that they appear after the man, and while this could be done by collecting previously made specimens to show him, that isn't what any of the texts support except the NIV.

Penny