John,for gods sake, I never said anything about connection of influence.
neither did i say they did not deserve the badge, however, if we are going to be accurate they are not innovators,they are collectors, organisers and publishers., of course they deserve a gold badger
when I use the word innovator I would use it to describe people like davy graham, or people like peadar long , or sue weir, or peter bond who introduced the clarinet and bass clarinet, or people like sue harris who introduced the oboe,or pyewackett who introduced the bassoon into english folk music