The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #144614 Message #3344526
Posted By: Joe Offer
28-Apr-12 - 03:09 PM
Thread Name: BS: The Vatican vs. The Nuns
Subject: RE: BS: The Vatican vs. The Nuns
I gotta admit, Rapparee, that I did not know that the original doctrine of infallibility was worded to apply to the Pope instead of to his words. Nonetheless, note that it is qualified and restricted to ex cathedra (from the chair) statements "defining doctrine concerning faith or morals." Even though it came from the megalomaniacal Pius IX,* infallibility is restricted to doctrine of the highest level and does not apply to any old thing the Pope says. Unfortunately, an awful lot of people understand it as applying to every time the Pope opens his mouth.
Also, note that the First Vatican Council statement on papal infallibility is part of a larger body of teaching on church doctrine, which places limits on what doctrines can be considered inerrant. The Wikipedia article on papal infallibility refers to another restriction I was taught in the seminary:The infallible teachings of the Pope must be based on, or at least not contradict, Sacred Tradition or Sacred Scripture
I can't find an original source for that.
The current teaching is in Paragraph 891 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church:891 "The Roman Pontiff, head of the college of bishops, enjoys this infallibility in virtue of his office, when, as supreme pastor and teacher of all the faithful - who confirms his brethren in the faith he proclaims by a definitive act a doctrine pertaining to faith or morals.... the infallibility promised to the Church is also present in the body of bishops when, together with Peter's successor, they exercise the supreme Magisterium," above all in an Ecumenical Council. When the Church through its supreme Magisterium proposes a doctrine "for belief as being divinely revealed," and as the teaching of Christ, the definitions "must be adhered to with the obedience of faith." This infallibility extends as far as the deposit of divine Revelation itself. (the footnotes refer back to the document Rapparee quoted from the first Vatican Council).
Penny, you're right that the document claims the Pope is "shepherd and teacher of all Christians." I don't get how you can say that it excludes the punishment of anathema from being applied to women - are you drawing that from "let him be anathema"? The original Latin document is "anathema sit" - with no gender specification.
*Perhaps Pius IX had some justification for his apparent megalomania. The same year, 1870, he lost control of the Papal States and became "prisoner of the Vatican" in self-imposed exclusion. His successors eventually became ruler of a country the size of a large golf course (110 acres). No wonder the poor guy felt threatened....