"We must bring Civilization and Enlightenment to the wogs!" Actually you are going all over the place here. I did not bring these other countries up - you did. You stated that their stats were worse than the US. I simply pointed out that it is irrelevant when talking about the comparison between the US and UK. I simply stated that the fact that the murder rate in the UK is so far below that in the US that it makes no sense when Americans suggest, as they sometimes do, that the UK does not protect its citizens. Neither did I suggest that the UK is not a violent place. In fact I particularly pointed out the problem of knife violence in Scotland. The plain fact though is that this violent country still has a low murder rate in comparison to the US. That is the point!