Thanks Jim. I enjoyed reading that post, despite the 'paragraphination'. (What causes that, anyway?).

Just to reinforce what it is all you knowledgeable people are referring to when you make reference to 1954.

"In 1954 the International Folk Music Council defined folk music as "the product of a musical tradition that has been evolved through the process of oral transmission. The factors that shape the tradition are: (1) continuity which links the present with the past; (2) variation which springs from the creative impulse of the individual or the group; and (3) selection by the community which determines the form or forms in which the music survives."

Regarding point 3: It does seem that there is some contention between the academic community and the people banksie describes who frequent the 'typical pub'.

And somebody pointed out the difference between 'tradition' in terms of how a group of people have always done things vs. tradition relating to folk or traditional music.

Yet it's still the same word....so there must be a connection.

Back to the old harmonica player who talked about how people in the logging and mining camps would sing old pop and country songs.

And the question about what children sing today in summer camps.

Do truckers sing "Six Days On the Road" at trucker's conventions? (That was the song that John Cohen once thought was a pop song that was entering the oral tradition).

And.....most importantly....do any of these questions matter when we talk about traditional music?   

I actually kind of like the 1954 definition....it does give a certain grounding.

But oral transmission is different now than it was then. A lot of songs are spread today through facebook.....and it's a much purer transmission than those controlled by record companies or radio stations.   But.....are there variations due to creative impulses of the individual or group?

It does go back to the question as to whether there is (or can be) a living tradition.   And whether it's possible for 'pop' songs to enter that living tradition.

(By the way, I tend to agree that "Johnny B. Goode" wouldn't quality, as it is too much associated with one singer/writer). Also, there's no quality in the song that seems to clearly link the present with the past.

That, to me, seems to be a crucial criteria....that linking.   I'd like to hear more about that. What exactly does it mean?