gnu's technique works in other places too.

Some years back I bought a garden hose at an end-of-season Sears sale. I put it on a shelf in the garden shed and the first time I hooked it up next spring, it blew up like a baloon and popped a hole.

Back at Sears, after some discussion, the clerk started "prorating the price" which I found somewhat unreasonable.

After an increasingly loud exchange, the manager arrived, and after I offered a few more "opinions" the orignal full price was refunded.

The "audience" of about 30 people who had been attracted by the noise actually applauded and a couple of them cheered, and insisted on shaking my hand.

(The low point was that the couple of people who followed me out to "talk it over" didn't include the couple of cute chicks I'd had my eye on during the exchange. I was younger then, and it wouldn't matter now I suppose.)

John