Goofy sez:

Don Firth: "Sorry. Plenty of factual information. That you won't ACCEPT those facts doesn't mean they are any the less true."

Well post at least ONE!

Okay, Goofy, here you are: If sexual orientation is not directly genetic, geneticists DO agree that it has a strong genetic component, and quite possibly goes down through the mother. One theory is that it is the timing of the infusion of hormones while the fetus is in utero.

Facts: it is NOT a simple choice, nor is it primarily a psychological problem, and as studies have shown, it cannot be cured with psychological counseling, psychotherapy, or so-called "aversion therapy." All attempts have either resulted in complete failure (recidivism), indeterminate result because the subject completely abstains from sexual activity of any kind, or in many cases, severe depression, and in a number of cases, suicide.

There are SEVERAL facts there for you to contemplate. If your "therapy" gets different results, then perhaps you should publish your results in the appropriate scientific journals, let them be subjected to peer review (rather than trying to bull US with them), and if you are indeed right, become highly esteemed among your fellow (ahem!) counselors.

Interesting sidelight:   the Republic of Indonesia consists of a large group of islands in Southeast Asia, northwest of Australia. The Indonesian archipelago has a population of some 238 million people. My wife's cousin made frequent trips there, particularly to Bali, and he once reported that because of the size of the population, the Indonesian government wanted to reduce the birth rate. So they started a program to encourage homosexual relationships!

Over a period of time, it was noted that it had NO EFFECT on the birth rate OR the number of same-sex relationships among the populace.

The FACT IS that sexual orientation is NOT a matter of CHOICE. In that respect, you are what you are and you cannot CHOOSE to be otherwise.

The whole world is currently suffering from a number of problems due to overpopulation. But that method of reducing the birth rate is an abject loser.

Those are FACTS, Goofy. Suck 'em up!!

Don Firth: "Ake, need I point out that this thread is about same-sex oriented people who wish to form stable relationships? Not about matters of AIDs and promiscuity!"

No Don you misunderstood the thread title..it doesn't say 'wish to form stable relationships' it says 'marriage'....read it..it's just up ^ there....and does marriage mean promiscuity??

Let me get this straight. From your comment just quoted above, it would appear that, although it is generally assumed by most people that marriage IMPLIES a stable relationship, i.e., faithful to one partner, you do not agree with this?

Let me point out that it is homosexuals, both gay men and lesbians, who initiated the campaigns for same-sex marriage—NOT we "fuzzy-headed Liberals." So it is quite logical to assume that by participating in a marriage ceremony, either in a church, or a judge's chambers, or justice of the peace's office, they are making a declaration that they wish to form what is intended to be the stable relationship which is known as "marriage."

If you do NOT think that this is what "marriage" means, then if you are married or intend to get married, does your wife or intended wife KNOW that you do not believe that "marriage" means devoting yourself to one person?

I'll give you last word......:

Don Firth: "Who's being silly now!??"

Obviously, you!

Don Firth

P. S.   I'll leave you with Carl Sandburg's "Eleventh Commandment:

Thou shalt not commit nincompoopery.