The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #149625   Message #3482119
Posted By: Gibb Sahib
21-Feb-13 - 02:30 PM
Thread Name: Origins: Padstow Farewell Shanty
Subject: RE: Origins: Padstow Farewell Shanty
Tom, thanks for clarification that Alan said he found it complete. That detail was not in your original anecdote, so it had to be asked rather than assumed.

Reason to believe it wasn't traditional? There is simply no evidence (yet) that it was; I can't prove a negative.

That aside, it doesn't sound like a traditional song due to its language. Or rather, the language sounds more like 20th century Folk music language to me, possibly something a poet could write in the late 19th century. The structured listing of "haul away x, y, z" sounds like someone trying hard to refer to nautical stuff in order to manufacture a "sea" song. In fact, the whole *self-reflection* on sailing stuff, in general, speaks to romanticism for maritime culture, whereas traditional songs tended to have other concerns than their "hauling" and their foresheets. To clarify, the traditional songs might refer to (e.g.) hauling, but not in such a consistent way, not dwelling on it. And "Haul away for heaven" is pure romantic rubbish.

I am not so articulate in describing what I feel intuitively about language, but I will say that the text has a sort of "undue weight" on certain things -- which makes me feel that someone modeled it after a few songs they had seen and based it on their perceptions of the genre they were modeling, rather than it emerging from the traditional repertoire. For instance, this sort of sentiment of "time for us to go; it's our sailing time" speaks the language of "Leave Her Johnny." One might feel, in that case, that it is validated as having traditional characteristics. And yet "Leave Her Johnny" is not very representative, in this sense, of the body of traditional song. In this case, it feels more like someone had heard "Leave Her Johnny" and used it as a model. The weight of a certain kind of sentiment is out of proportion to the weight given to that sentiment in the traditional repertoire as a whole.

For someone to suppose it is a traditional song without evidence seems to me a bolder gesture than for someone like me , in the same absence of evidence, to suspect that it is not traditional. I think the burden lies with the former to support his/her belief.

Now, I've tried to answer your question - Can you please answer my question on the Bully in the Alley thread? :-) (re: why John Short's version would be more like a cotton stowing version due to its structure)