The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #119219   Message #3486298
Posted By: Lighter
04-Mar-13 - 01:20 PM
Thread Name: Sea Chanteys/Shanties page-Gibb Sahib
Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys/Shanties page-Gibb Sahib
Clever detecting, Snuffy. I feel, however, that the conjunction of the Apache Victorio and "Jim Crow" is coincidental. The reason is that however appealing the story of Apaches vs. "Buffalo Soldiers" might be to us, the "Victorio Campaign" in New Mexico wasn't prominent enough in the news nationally (or internationally) to result in a sea shanty. It was a given that the U.S. army was constantly fighting Indians on the "Great American Desert," and except for a sensational event like the Little Big Horn, not much newsprint was devoted to it other than locally.

On the other hand, Thomas Rice's "Jim Crow" minstrel performance really was an international smash and was popular for many years.

My guess is that the shanty refers to the "Jim Crow" stage character, and the "Victoria" is the Queen. If there really is a Danish connection, the pronunciation "Victorio" may reflect non English speakers singing the name out with an "-aw" rather than an "-ah." Compare "Santy Anna" and "Santy Anno."

If the shanty arose only in 1880, it would be surprising that Carpenter stumbled upon a couple of elderly seamen who knew it, while Hugill and other collectors appear never to have encountered it. In other words, its vogue may have been quite early.

As usual, nothing is provable here, but I doubt very much that sailors in either Britain or North America had enough interest in either the Apache Victorio or the "Buffalo Soldiers" to make a song about them.