So let's see if I have this right. You think it would be fruitful for us to discuss (again) exactly when human life begins. Great. Don't forget to tell me where you think that will get us.

If we're going to discuss abortion again let's try to figure out a way towards some solutions. Let's begin by saying that ignorance, lack of sex education, denial of contraception, moralising, preaching and the belittling of women's place in the world are the very opposite of the right answers. By those criteria, the Catholic church is one of the major champions of abortion. I just said in another thread here (with a man talking red alert thrown in) that I want all women to have the unfettered right to have abortions. Unfettered means no charge, no delays, no "counselling" and no conditions. None. But I'm far more "against" abortion than any pope or Mother Teresa. I want to live in a world in which abortions are rare. Abortions are not individual failures of women or couples. They are one hundred percent always all our fault, all of us. Society's fault. So let's address all that ignorance, lack of sex education, denial of contraception, moralising, preaching and belittling. There is no other way.