Now... "contradict them"? WTF did he contradict? Fuck all except the fallacies... and the bigotry... and the lies. He never contradicted any valid statements or arguements that I read in this thread.

He contradicted nothing. He simply lashed out and called three of us bigots. I'm waiting for the explanation of why Bonnie, Jim and me are bigots. I understand how honest people can feel cornered by powerful arguments and lash out. I've done it myself on occasion, then realised afterwards that losing my rag whilst others kept their heads was a pretty futile strategy. Bonnie, Jim and my good self put in considerable effort - maybe misguided at times, who knows - into what we post. Most often it's based on a fair bit of homework beforehand. I'm always happy with my standpoint, because I've done that collar-work, though I never feel it's impregnable, but I feel OK as long as I've done my homework first. Yes I'm biased against Catholicism. Well, against all organised religion if I'm honest. But that does not blind me at all to the fact that billions of people adhere to certain faiths, and what a bloody clot I would be to call them all fools or deny their right to hold whatever beliefs they want to hold. I do not agree with Joe on most levels, though I can see that he is a very sincere man in his beliefs and (like me as it happens) would like to see Catholicism in a much healthier state than it currently is, for the sake of its hundreds of millions of followers. One of the greatest sins of Catholicism is that it requires its people to be guilty, sinful, miserable wretches who are sorely in need of salvation. I take no pleasure in that "told-you-so" way when the Church hits the buffers, because that means its followers are suffering as well. I don'rt really care that much if someone calls me a bigot, but I think I'm owed a bit of an explanation at least.