Thank you, Jack. Fully reciprocated. You are one of those with whom one can discuss without heat even when not necessarily in agreement.

I take your point re LH;, but that appeal to the 'spiritual' still begs the question, IMO. I am sure that such sects as the followers of Jim Jones, say, or some of the more extreme adherents of the Southern Baptist Church, would regard themselves as thoroughly 'spiritual' ~~ would probably, indeed, regard no-one else as entitled to consider themselves so; so that LH taking his stand on an appeal to 'spirituality' won't quite do it for me as a denial or refutation of the idea that anyone could take a self-righteous pleasure in the prospect of ultimate postmortem suffering for the unrighteous ~~ like Steve & me, say!

Regards

~M~