The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #149974   Message #3494632
Posted By: Don(Wyziwyg)T
25-Mar-13 - 10:34 AM
Thread Name: BS: What is 'Heaven and Hell'?
Subject: RE: BS: What is 'Heaven and Hell'?
If I knew the following about an opponent, I would not lower myself to debate with such an arrogant, ignorant, unqualified self publicist.

The following from Wikipedia.

""Jonathan Sarfati is an angry man who is a vocal proponent of Young Earth Creationism. Despite his insistence on using logic — using his qualifications to lend weight to his arguments — he often resorts to emotional appeals and name calling.
He is also startlingly ignorant of evolution, as seen in his book Refuting Evolution, wherein he states,
...evolution is not just about ape-like creatures turning into humans. Evolution is a philosophy trying to explain everything without God.
Before going full-time into creationist evangelism, Dr Sarfati was a chemist. He is also an expert chess player.
Sarfati has been a proper scientist, a physical chemist, with a B.Sc with honours and a Ph.D,[1] and claims several publications in this area, including in Nature. It should be noted that expertise in physical chemistry, although a proper hard science, lends absolutely no expertise on any aspect of biology.

Sarfati is an itinerant speaker and author. His ability to sell books or gain speaking engagements is based on his perceived authority within creationist circles, and his status as a "towering intellect". Thus, much material on CMI's website and in their printed matter is cringe-inducingly laudatory.
One article, An Awesome Mind, incorporates hyperbole like
·        "Very few people interested in creation/evolution issues would not have heard of Jonathan Sarfati. His books have become best-sellers—standard fare for Christians wishing to engage those who hold to evolutionary/long-age ideas. One of the reasons they have become such a powerful tool for Christianity is the amazing flow of his clear, crisp trademark logic, which has 'skewered' and silenced many an evolutionary detractor."
·        "Here was someone the Lord had blessed with a brilliant mind like a steel trap"
·        "Jonathan's response systematically demolished their arguments."
·        "The value of having a formidable talent who can quickly provide such solid answers—especially to Christians who feel intimidated by a barrage of the so-called 'facts' of evolution—cannot be overestimated"
If such fanfare fails to drive home the point, the article goes on with a section titled Audiences in awe, describing Sarfati's unsurpassed abilities. In relation to an exhibition of his chess skills,
·        an observer conveniently stating "This is astounding. World-class. The world's media should be here"
·        "It is truly astonishing to watch... For most 'mere mortals' like me, this kind of 'brain power' is an almost unimaginable gift."
The article then concludes that Sarfati is "A privilege to know".
The problem with the objectivity of such testimonies is that Sarfati is himself the editor of this material. This piece (one example of many) carries the byline of Gary Bates, Sarfati's colleague, and who works "one desk over" from Sarfati. But it is not disputed that Sarfati is identified as an editor of CMI's materials, and was chief editor in the Ex Nihilo magazine in which this piece appeared. Although this kind of self-promotion is not unusual for creationists, since they have no credibility outside the narrow confines of fundamentalism, Sarfati's self promotion has reached such giddy heights it would make a North Korean dictator blush.
Sarfati's debating technique is infamous for a "take no prisoners" approach that is so offensive, it regularly brings the reproach of other, more irenically-minded Christians. A Christian review of Sarfati's Refuting Evolution says Sarfati is "blinded by his own ideology and has probably never honestly and open-mindedly faced the main issue about which he writes", noting that Sarfati attacks Old-earth creationist Hugh Ross as a false teacher in need of Biblical rebuke. This is typical. Sarfati frequently retreats to "X calls himself a Christian, but..." succumbing to the classic "No True Scotsman" logical fallacy. Sarfati repeatedly and clearly implies non-Young Earth Creationists are barely saved, and are otherwise misguided, apostate, ineffective or tools of Satan for failing to take a literalist, presuppositionalist approach to scripture. This approach is typical of the more histrionic Creationist organisations, but Sarfati is its exemplar: Giving lip service to the idea that other Christians can sincerely disagree about doctrine without heresy, but taking the gloves off in personal argument, conducting desperate ad hominem rejoinders, and casting aspersion on any adversary's salvation or motivations.
Comments on fora where Sarfati has editorial control reveal repeated instances of Sarfati removing comments from those who rebut him and him then crowing over his "speechless" opponents. Sarfati also regularly retreats to name calling, referring to "celebutards" or "Commissar Obamov".
Sarfati has been known to employ the nom-de-guerre "Socrates" in online forums, even when commenting on himself. This is sufficiently well known that it is unlikely he still uses it when aiming for anonymity.
""

At the top of the page which contains source links for almost every point made, in a yellow box, is the following:-

"This page contains too many unsourced statements, and needs to be improved.

Jonathan Sarfati could use some help. Please research the article's assertions. Whatever is credible should be sourced, and what is not should be removed.
""

It is absolutely correct on one point only. Jonathan Sarfati could use some help, mainly psychiatric and anger management.

Bottom line:-

1. He has a doctorate in Physical Chemistry, miles away from even basic knowledge of biology, or any other discipline which would qualify him to comment on evolution on any other basis than as a layman.

2. Almost every comment extolling his intellect and knowledge comes direct from his own mouth, via his colleague Gary Bates at the next desk.

3. He isn't above cheating: ""Comments on fora where Sarfati has editorial control reveal repeated instances of Sarfati removing comments from those who rebut him and him then crowing over his "speechless" opponents.""

I think, Pete, you've picked a real dud there, but it seems Dawkins did take him on in a debate which was posted on Youtube on March 1st 2011

Debate

Don T.