""Never disagree with Gnu.

He is RIGHT!

Whether it makes sense or not.""

That would surely define alot of "somewhat stunborn mudcatters".

Defining "right and wrong" is a very difficult topic on itself, outside the personal attachement some folks seem to have on being on the right side of an issue). However, I have debated gnu on a variety of topics. My experience has been that, when faced with reason and courtesy, he has clearly and openly (with no strings attached) indicated he felt he was in error.