The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #102165   Message #3505251
Posted By: Marc Bernier
18-Apr-13 - 08:46 AM
Thread Name: Origin: John Cherokee
Subject: RE: Origin: John Cherokee
"considerable amount of time" Have you ever had a conversation with Tim Reilly? It wasn't like it took him hours to explain it to me, but he can take a circuitous route to make a point. When I started working at the Seaport my back ground in 19th century music was primarily through my experience in Fife and Drum. I played marches, and I approached singing chanteys just like I was playing a march. Still do I suppose? So that hesitation in the melody with a pull on the rest felt awkward to me. Later that day while having a beverage, I asked… "What were you doing, where does that come from"? To paraphrase his response," these are African rhythms not European not every action needs to fall on a word; don't you march to syncopated Rhythms?" It didn't feel natural to me those 25-30 years ago, but I guess I'v gotten used to it.

As for Stan's "tacit approval". That's exactly what I interpreted. I've seen Tim do that chantey a few times whilst Stan was on board, with never a raise of an eyebrow. I'v seen Stan stop folks in the middle of their performance to tell them they weren't doing it right, or those aren't the right words. As if there are right words. Maybe he had already had that talk with Tim or maybe he just liked him, but he did not critique his choice of rhythm. I don't recall hearing Stan sing it himself though.

As for John Cherokee, I don't remember ever hearing Stan sing it. But it's been my perception that most Europeans tend to sing the more square rhythm, with the 1st syllable of Cher-o-kee landing on the 2nd beat. While most American tend to sing it with that Syllable starting on the 2nd half of the 2nd beat, or the and of 2. And I would also agree with the other observations that the grunt appears to have started in the Pacific North West.