The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #150410   Message #3506598
Posted By: Jack the Sailor
21-Apr-13 - 10:57 AM
Thread Name: BS: Non-belief in a god is not a religion
Subject: RE: BS: Non-belief in a god is not a religion
Steve Shaw,

It is often hard to tell whether you are trying to have a give and take or if you are just deliberately being contrary. In either case you are opening an interesting can of worms with this.

"This is not my idea of what "doubt" is. I've spent all my life as a big, hairy, gruff man, but I've often considered what it might be like to be a woman. This does not reflect any doubt at all on my part that I'm a man."

You have always had the choice of whether or not to live as a woman and more recently, for all purposes other than reproduction you have had the choice of physically becoming one. Whether or not that reflects any doubt on your part that you are a man is something that can be found only deep within your psyche.

You don't need to see a survey. You can simply examine the lyrics of Hymns and the contents of sermons and homilies. Look at the story of St Paul. The act to becoming born again is part of a process where one strays from the teachings and comes back to them. Overcoming doubts is a common topic of sermons, and is the oblique purpose of every Billy Graham and evangelical mission in any predominantly Christian country.

I honestly do not understand your dwelling on certitude. I do not think that it is a big factor in religion or the lack of it. Keep in mind that Dawkins dismisses the idea of his certitude or lack of it with a Douglas Adams JOKE about "fairies in the garden."

My father and grandfather both had plenty of doubts and experienced being born again. Their euphoria and joy at this and their wish to express it, I found both understandable and rather tedious. But I never detected certitude from them. It was more like "jump into the pool with us. The water is fine." Rather than "Do as we do or you will go to Hell." I realize that your perception and experiences were different. But I think that mine are applicable to a large number of people in the Americas and Europe, especially in the older denominations.