The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #150251   Message #3508330
Posted By: GUEST
24-Apr-13 - 03:38 PM
Thread Name: Origins: Rose-Briar Motif
Subject: RE: Origins: Rose-Briar Motif
I know. The sweet briar is a sacred flower for devotees of Mary. I might have to plant some near my statue, next to my roses, see if they do anything :-)

I just saw Steve on another thread and he says he knows of a London broadside c.1685 "Fair Margaret and Sweet William." He's always holding out in me. Well Steve, I have Douce Ballads I (72A) Fair Margaret's Misfortune. C.1720 with a notation that it should be sung to the tune of Lord Thomas. That would be Douce Ballads (120b) Lord Thomas and Fair Ellinor. c.1677.

Steve, wouldn't that mean that Fair Margaret and Sweet William was derived from Lord Thomas and Fair Ellinor, that it could best be described as a kinder gentler text to fit the same tune? Wouldn't one text need to predate the other in order to provide the tune for it. If Lord Thomas has his own familiar tune in 1677 and Fair Margaret and Sweet William are still directing the singer to the other tune in 1720, that's as pretty slow growth period, don't you think? Not to worry. Percy took care of that.

You should try to see if you can locate the part of Percy's folio that has "Lord Thomas and Fair Annett." I wonder if it's one of the parts that is missing- or if he alterred it in any way. It's supposed to be at the British Museum. I haven't gotten around to writing them yet. Sometimes these curator librarian people are helpful. Sometimes they're not :-)

Remember "Danny Boy" Steve. You had alternate texts floating around for the same tune. Eventually one prevailed.