The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #150071   Message #3516323
Posted By: Steve Shaw
17-May-13 - 07:24 PM
Thread Name: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
Progressive Christians and Jews won't argue with science at all. They see the same processes scientists see, but they look in wonder at nature and see the presence of God within the processes scientists observe - not as an external force. And if others see the same thing and don't see the presence of God, that's fine, too.

Well, I won't jump on your use of "progressive", though I could...

Contemplating the wonders of nature is (to me) why we're here. The paradox in the position of people of faith is that the self-same God who you see as driving things (and who gave us our brains) truncates your enquiry. He provides far too lazy an answer, which, when you think about it, is about as lame an answer as it's possible to conceive. Nature, allegedly, exists because of him, and he drives it. Yet there is nothing in nature that can't be explained by ordinary, everyday laws. He's an incredibly poor explanation in other ways too: he's clearly a very complex being, he breaches every known law and he is utterly inexplicable. Well, I'm an atheist because my poor, demented brain demands something a little more intellectually rigorous than that.   

People of faith are not necessarily stupid or inventing things or whatever you may claim.

You won't find me calling believers stupid. Most believers I know appear to sideline their belief, and get on with their lives pretty much the same as everyone else, for 99% of the time. In most cases I wouldn't be knowing who's a believer and who isn't.

I belong to a faith tradition that traces itself back over 3,000 years. It's a tradition that is very sacred and meaningful to me. If it's not meaningful to you, that's OK by me. But be careful when you try to refute it or denigrate it. It has a long history of wisdom behind it.

Yeah but yours is a positive upstart compared to mine. My tradition goes back to Lucy or Homo habilis or Australopithecus, or those chaps who painted animals on freezing cave walls in central Europe. My tradition's called humanity. Yours is, with respect, something of a bolt-on! ;-)