So, here's what CS says, in answer to John P:

John P: "Bringing rapist priests and the history of religious intolerance and violence into every discussion of religion is not only rude but really stupid."

Do you actually think that? Because I find it incredible that you would think that these huge issues are not relevant.

]It's essentially saying, "bringing all the incredibly bad things that religion has caused into every discussion about religion is not only rude, but really stupid."]

First, take note that John P does not practice a religion, but he does seem to be very balanced in his approach. Since I'm Catholic, I am constantly held to task in this forum for the molester priests and Magdalene Laundries and the inquisition and bishops opposing gay marriage and anti-condom prejudice and all sorts of other things that some people in the Catholic Church are guilty of - even though the vast majority of Catholics do not support such things. So, yeah, I am constantly challenged to defend my church for these offenses - offenses for which there is no defense. As a matter of fact, I have fought against these offenses all my life. I consider these offenses to be abhorrent, and not to be part of the legitimate practice of religion.

But lots of people go to church, and some of them are likely to be criminals - and their fellow church-goers should not be held to answer for their crimes unless they have participated in or encouraged those crimes. When I lived in the city, I had a number of neighbors who committed crimes - should I be held to answer for their misdeeds?

If you want to discuss a shortcoming in the Catholic Church, I'm happy to discuss it - but don't blame me for it unless I did the deed. And don't tell me what I believe and then then condemn me for it - most likely, that's not what I believe.

Hell, Steve Shaw won't even let me call myself "progressive," despite my peace demonstrations and civil rights marches and social justice work and my having the only Obama bumper sticker in the parish parking lot (and I have one favoring gay marriage, too).

It really distresses me that in recent years I have seen so much intolerance on the part of those who call themselves "liberals." Back In the Day, tolerance was deemed to be one of the major aspects of liberalism, and I could proudly call myself a liberal without anybody trying to push me out the door because of my religious beliefs. No more, I guess. Now liberals want to grow up to be bigots, too.

-Joe Offer-

P.S. Oh, and Steve - I'm a really, really big fan of Marilyn Monroe. Are you going to try to say that's not allowed because I'm Catholic?