The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #151204   Message #3532926
Posted By: Abby Sale
02-Jul-13 - 02:35 PM
Thread Name: Origins: 'The Bloody Great Wheel'
Subject: RE: Origins: 'The Bloody Great Wheel'
Dick, I have the same info on women as significant or primary carriers of songs on sex. Especially in those locals you cite. Also from Sheila Douglas, who knows Scotland; and even Legman. I suggest that it is only from Victorian times that women were assumed not to control or enjoy sex, masturbate, be aggressive, have orgasm, etc. Even Kinsey was destroyed for suggesting these things exist. FWIW, in traditional Jewish society and religious law, it is clearly the women who "own" and control. It is women (in law) who are _entitled_ to have sex, not men.

SJL, You say much of interest but re: "There is no equivalent of this sort of "humorous" folk song for women." Beg to differ. See Jean Ritchie's family institutionalization of the war between men and women. (Not her phrase - I think it's Thurber's.) On a Saturday night they had challenge singing (among other stuff). Men would sing anti-female songs and women reposte with anti-male ones. These were taken as jesting and humorous. Of specific songs I only remember women singing Equinoxal and Phoebe. Either might sing Farmer's Curst Wife but would alter the last verse appropriate to gender.

There are many, many songs where the woman wins out and I'm not thinking of the whore stealing sailor's clothes; I'm thinking of winning in battle, wits, justified trickery, piracy,
etc.