For those of us, pete, who believe in the real world, and not magic or miracles, here's the yarn. Mary (allegedly, but we'll let that pass) had a baby called Jesus. There are two possibilities. Nine months before Jesus was born, Joseph shagged Mary. Alternatively, some other bloke shagged Mary. A real bloke, not the Holy Whatever. Thing is, I'm a bit of a Jesus freak. I don't believe those atheists who say Jesus wasn't an historical figure. I can't prove it, but I think Jesus really did exist. As for saying all those wise things, well, we have the word of a bunch of blokes who knew as much about Jesus as I know about Oscar Wilde (similar timescale). And I'll tell you summat. I don't need no virgin birth, miracles, rising from the dead or anything else of that load of bollocks. I can take him as a good bloke with a lot to say about how we should live our lives (I do have a number of disagreements with him, but hey). So do explain to me some time (no rush) why you and your ilk need the whole bloody shebang wrapped up in magic and miracles. If he's good enough as an ordinary bloke, he's good enough. But not for you. You can't accept your guy unless he's wrapped in magic. Weird if you ask me. Which you won't.